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Islam & Violence - November 2001, by K.B. Napier

Barry Napier accused of inciting religious hatred.

From: saeedan@hotmail.com [mailto:saeedan@hotmail.com]
Christian Doctrine Feedback Form
Sent: 07 December 2001 00:24

Mr Napier's article seems to incite religious hatred. He may think he is of differing religion to Louis Farrah Khan (Nation of Islam) but he is the same. They both practice hatred.

The 5 pillars of Islam are;
bearing witness to the unity of God
prayer
charity
fasting
pilgrimage
Islam is that simple!! We Muslims don't convert people to Islam using swords, God guides the hearts of people to the truth.

I would like to quote a few verses from the Quran;
S XLI Verses 19-25
On the Day that
The enemies of God
Will be gathered together
To the Fire, they will
Be marched in ranks.

At length, when they reach
The (Fire), their hearing,
Their sight, and their skins
Will bear witness against them,
As to (all) their deeds.

They will say to their skins;
"Why bear ye witness
Against us?" They will say;
"God hath given us speech-
(He) Who giveth speech
To everything; He created
You for the first time,
And unto Him were ye
To return.

"Ye did not seek
To hide yourselves, lest
Your hearing, your sight,
And your skins should bear
Witness against you! But
Ye did think that God
Knew not many of the things
That ye used to do!

"But this thought of yours
Which ye did entertain
Concerning your Lord, hath
Brought you to destruction,
And (now) have ye become
Of those utterly lost!"
From 

Saeeda Naz
saeedan@hotmail.com

---END---

Barry Napier, 14th October, 2001
Are terrorists the brethren of Muslims?

Discussions on Islam and Violence have indicated an important fact – that moderate Muslims oppose terrorism by Muslims.  Rightly, these moderates have openly condemned the violence and deaths caused by extremists.

However, in the recent Arab conference, over 50 Islamic countries warned the USA not to attack any other Islamic countries.  Yet it is fact that some of them are known to be terrorist havens.

What this suggests is that Islam therefore claims to be free of international law, and that non-Muslims cannot fight against those countries that wish to kill their citizens!  They are, then, protecting, killers who wage war on the West.  Condemning the violence is meaningless, if nothing is done about it.

Moderate Muslims must take the ultimate step if they wish to convince the West of their good intentions.  If terrorists who claim to be Muslim are acting against the Koran, then moderates must tell them, and us, that they are NOT MUSFrom Saeeda Naz
saeedan@hotmail.comLIMS.  Then we can know the difference!

As Christians, we would shun those who act against God’s word.  We would call them heretics and cast them out from fellowship.  Will Muslims do the same for those who act against Islam?

Islam is not a country or a sate – it is a religion, found all over the world.  So any attack on terrorists is an attack on killers and their supporters.  It is not an attack on Islam!

Will moderate Muslims stand and be counted?  Or will they continue to call heretical Muslims their brethren?

---END----

Barry Napier, 5th October 2001

Political Correctness Strikes At Wrong Time

From: Imam Ahmed [mailto:imamahmedusa@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 6:14 PM
Subject: Responding To The Verses Quoted by Dr. Clifford
Salam/Peace to You,

Let me respond to the following verses, chosen by the Christian doctor:
['Believers, retaliation is decreed for you in bloodshed' (Sura 2: 178).]

Let me say the word above translated as "bloodshed" is not that but "killing." It is the word used for that in all of the Qur'an. ALSO, It was sad that the Christian doctor chose to post half of the verse (which is what all those who wish to mislead always do) while the whole verse of 2:178 says;

"O You Who Believe, Retaliation is prescribed for you in killing; the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female, but if any remission is made to any one by his (aggravated) brother, then prosecution (for the bloodwit) should be made according him in a good manner; this is an alleviation from your LORD and a mercy; so whoever exceeds the limits after this, he shall have a painful chastisement"(2; 178)

What the above says is that same "An Eye For An Eye" Biblical Message. But, Surely, God knows the Misleaders. Any intelligent person who reads the above will automatically realize the above is just a very justful manner in dealing with killing.

['Fight for the sake of Allah those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. Allah does not love the aggressors. Kill them wherever you find them...if they attack you put them to the sword...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme...If any one attacks you, attack him as he attacked you' (Sura 2: 190-4).]

I must say, the above is the worst misleading I have ever seen! I invite everyone to read the verse 2: 190-194 for themselves. Please go to www.Islam.org and find those verses (there is a multiple translation available for those who speak languages beside Arabic by various translators)

The verse 190 says that to fight against those who fight us. AND it asks us not to exceed the limits (I.E., not to attack people who did not attack us.)

The verse 191 says to kill them (those who attacked us) wherever we find them and to drive them out of where they drove us out.

The verse 192 says if they stop it, then God is Merciful.

The verse 193 says, well, let me quote it all:

"And fight with them until there is NO PERSECUTION (notice there is no such thing as 'idolatry' in this verse) and that Religion should be for God (this speaks to Muslims - saying do NOT make it yourself... by converting people in anger) but if they desist then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors (again God is asking Muslims to be for justice and that if the society is not oppressing or stops oppressing that there should be no hostility against them.)

The verse 194 says to inflict injury upon those who inflict injury upon us (during the sacred months - this was not so before Muhammad) and that we should NOT injure anyone who did not inflict injury upon us. THAT is all those verses say, unlike what is quoted above and named to the Qur'an.

The doctor should keep in mind that God existed before Christianity and exists after Christianity. And God appoints laws to whomever He wishes. Maybe the doctor should take a look at the tanakh (Jewish Bible) instead of looking at the Gospels which teach to turn the other cheek and then comparing it to the Qur'an (which like the Torah teaches of 'eye for eye'.)

['Fight for the cause of Allah' (Sura 2: 244).]

There is a reason why God adds; "AND know God is Hearing and Knowing" (IF one reads the whole verse) Then we need to ask; What is God's cause? God's cause is JUSTICE. We may disagree on that, if the Doctor wishes.

[ 'Those that deny Our revelations We will burn in Hellfire...As for those that have faith and do good works, We shall admit them to gardens watered by running streams, where, wedded to chaste virgins, they shall abide forever...the believers who do good works, whether men or women, shall enter the gardens of Paradise' (Sura 4: 55-7, 124).]

While I did not check those verses and their true translations, let me ask is not Christ himself who teaches those who do not believe in him will be thrown into the lake of fire? I do not find either of them to be unjust but in accordance with their own status of beliefs. God condemns those who do not believe in Him in all these three books (Torah, Gospel, and Qur'an) and why one chooses to notice the Qur'an's only is definitely something I do not understand.

['The true believers fight for the cause of Allah, but the infidels fight for idols. Fight then against the friends of Satan' (Sura 4: 76).]

Again, a big time mistranslation, as the verse says;

"Those who believe fight in the way of God, and those who do not believe fight in the way of the Devil. Fight therefore against the friends of the Devil; surely the strategy of the Devil is weak"(4;76)

I find that to be a true thing in my belief. In Islam, there are two ways. You are either with God or Not. I can tell you, I have personally met non-Muslims who were with God and "Muslims" who were with the Devil. Again, a Believer, as I said in way below is anyone who believes in God and that someday there'll be an accounting of every soul. You don't need to be "Muslim" to be that. IF you
notice the Qur'an teaches there are believers in Jews and Christians when the Quran says "May you be Jews or Christians, anyone who believes in God"

[ 'Therefore fight for the cause of Allah' (Sura 4: 84).]

This is what the verse says;

[4.84] Fight then in God's way; this is not imposed on you except In relation to yourself, and rouse the believers to ardor maybe God will restrain the fighting of those who disbelieve and God is strongest in prowess and strongest to give an exemplary punishment.]

For the life of me, I wonder what the doctor saw in this verse to be 'wrong.'? I guess the doctor was making the point that it is wrong to fight in God's way. However, we see that God says; "this is not imposed on you except in relation to yourself" therefore, unless it is self-defense, you really have no business for fighting God. You only fight for God where You fight for Your rights, as a Human being.

[Allah has given those that fight with their goods and their persons a higher rank than those who stay at home. He has promised all a good reward; but far richer is the recompense of those who fight for Him...' (Sura 4: 96).]

Very true! Should a man who fights against Oppression and one that tolerates it the same? Of course NOT! To God and to Man, they are both far apart!

['Unbelievers are those who declare: 'Allah is the Messiah, the Son of Mary'' (Sura 5: 17).]

Let me quote the whole verse;

[5.17] Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely, God-- He is the Messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then could control anything as against God when He wished to destroy the Messiah son of Mary and his mother and all those on the earth? And God's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them;
He creates what He pleases; and God has power over all things.]

The above is Islamic Belief. It is not against anyone, but it is for the Muslims. I do not consider it 'Anti-Muslim' when Christians say the "only" way to God is through Jesus. It is Christian belief.

[ 'When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them...' (Sura 9: 5).]

If one reads 9:3 and from, one realizes that the above was for SPECIFIC time and for SPECIFIC people. The people of Makkah (Mecca) in the Time of the first Pilgrimage (where Prophet Muhammad and Believers had to clean the Temple off of the idolaters and their gods. This is in complete agreement with Isaiah 42's prophecy of a Kedarite who would clean the Land of Kedar. But, beside that Biblical fact, Muhammad was kicked out of Mecca before this for his beliefs and had every right to go back and fight for his city.)

[ '...make war on the leaders of unbelief...' (Sura 9: 12).]

Oh, my God! I'm very disappointed in this site for posting such a misleading article. The above verse is not complete, and without its completion sounds Islam offers terrorism. BUT, let me quote its wholesome;

[9.12] And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist.]

What the above verse teaches is that if a treaty is signed and one violates that, then we can fight the LEADERS of those unbelievers(since a Muslim can never break his oath therefore the Quran assumes it is only an unbeliever who will do so.) Note how God chooses "the Leaders" unlike Terrorists who target civilians and innocent folks.

['Believers, know that the idolaters are unclean...' (Sura 9: 28).]

Did not even check this, but I'm saying now, Idolaters are unclean. The Tanakh says so, the Gospel says so, and the Qur'an says so.

['...the Christians say the Messiah is the son of Allah. Such are their assertions, by which they imitate the infidels of old. Allah confound them! How perverse they are! They worship...the Messiah the son of Mary, as gods besides Allah; though they were ordered to serve one God only. There is no god but Him. Exalted be He above those whom they deify beside Him!...It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true faith to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters may dislike it' (Sura 9: 30-3).]

The above is a mishmash, but let me quote its entirety;

[9.30] And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of God; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of God; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may God destroy them; how they are turned away!
[9.31] They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords
besides God, and (also) the Messiah son of Mary and they were enjoined that they should serve one God only, there is no god but He; far from His glory be what they set up (with Him).
[9.32] They desire to put out the light of God with their mouths, and God will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse. 
[9.33] He it is Who sent His Apostle with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheist may be averse.]
Again, the above are Islamic Beliefs. Islam is a Monotheist Religion. But let me go on record in saying that the ancient Jewish sect (I don't remember its name) which believed Ezra was the biological Son of God are in common with Christians who believe Jesus was the biological Son of God. While Judaism calls a lot of people the "Son of God" (including the Prophet/King David,) Quran only mentions the ones who believed Ezra being the son of God, biologically. I personally met and interviewed Christians who believed Jesus was the Biological Son of God. While the majority of Christians do not hold this thought, among the Christians exist those who do (whether poor education is cause of that, I don't know.)

And then God condemns the Jewish people's following the Rabbis, blindly (people refused to accept the Messiah just cause some Rabbis said so.) And the fact that the majority of Christians (Catholics) in the time of the Qur'an also blindly followed their monks.

The Jewish Rabbis, as Rabbi Hillel, had the "power" to edit/modify the Torah. In Islam to modify the Laws of God is pure idiolatry(SINCE only God can modify His Law.) To this day, people in Judaism have neglected many of God's Laws to them just because Rabbis in the generations have dismissed them so. It should be noted that God himself says His Laws are eternal in the Torah.

In early Christianity, Monks have duped people into thinking certain things were for "God."  Some Popes have supported evil acts against humanity. Priests have long told the Christians that God will only forgive their sins if they confess it to a Priest. ALL these are idolatry for they are at least to Islam. I do not mean to preach people, but I had to tell you what the above verses are talking about.

['If you do not fight He will punish you sternly and replace you by other men...' (Sura 9: 39).]

Yes, any nation who does not fight against Oppression, gets what is coming to them. LOOK at Europe! God had replaced Nazis and those who did not fight them with CLEANER folks. In Islam, you only fight for someone's rights (even if it is your own.)

['Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons' (Sura 9: 41).]

Yes, that is what I tell the Iraqi people; Fight against oppression even if you have no weapon, God will assist you. When one fights for ones own right, God definitely will do the rest(regardless of what you have.) For example, in the Battle of Badr, 300 Muslims defeated more than a thousand Meccans. Surely, God is with those who fight for a good cause.

['Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously
with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate' (Sura 9: 73).

'Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you...' (Sura 9:
122).]

That is not what the above says, but;

[9.73] O Prophet, struggle against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination]

Unlike what the doctor quoted, the above verse does not say to make war on the unbelievers (since that sounds like invasion) but says to struggle against them. To struggle is not to invade, but to defend.

In conclusion, while I cannot respond to every letter, I will try to respond to the things added to this site (as I visit often.) However, I ask you to do your part and verify just the verses people quote. More often than not, people tend to misquote the Qur'an. The Qur'an is called "the Reading" in Arabic and is meant to be a READING, not to give background information and what not. It is for us, the Muslims, to tell you the backgrounds of the Qur'an and what the verses mean when they speak in general. While I have not finished my Islamic Studies and probably will always be a Student of Islam, I will give you all the information I can, from me, from my teachers, from my history. I'm enjoying very much the opportunity to teach Christians about Islam. Truth be told, Christianity is the closest religion to Islam. At the same time, I know that there are Christian sects and/or fractions which are very, very, very far away from both Christianity and Islam. For goodness' sake, even some Islamic sects are far from Islam.

My time on this site is not meant to preach, and I apologize if it appears that way to some (I got E-Mails from people complaining.) When people misquote the Qur'an, whether intentionally or due to poor education, it is my responsibility to correct them. You will notice that I tend to use the Bible (Both Gospel and Tanakh as a reference, such as saying "the Bible says the same thing," etc) and that is not meant to "argue" but to let the other know we are almost the same. I met some Christians who are closer to Islam than some "Muslims."

I also apologize for the length of this letter, the doctor quoted many verses which needed a lot of back-ground. God bless!
Imam Ahmed

---END---

-----Original Message-----
From: Barnabas Fund
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 2:36 PM
Subject: RE: Joint Christian-Muslim Statement
Subject:  Joint Christian-Muslim Statement 21 September 2001